Season 8, Episode 10
David Wilcock: All right. Welcome back to “Cosmic Disclosure”. I'm your host, David Wilcock, and we are here with our special guest Clifford Mahooty, who was brought to our attention by our insider's insider, Corey Goode. So continuing this fascinating discussion, here we are.
Clifford, welcome to the show.
Clifford Mahooty: Glad to be here.
David: And Corey, thanks for being here.
Corey Goode: Thank you.
David: So Clifford, we are now going to start talking about some of these very interesting artifacts that your people, the Zuni, have had in their possession.
You have said on public record now that you believe they have off-world artifacts. Could you be a little more specific?
Clifford: I believe one of the first off-world things that I learned about was the crystals. And these were both used as transmitter and receiver, so I guess they would fall in the category of transceivers.
Clifford: And they would use these for communications with other groups, in this case, probably some of the sacred groups throughout the land here on the planet, and also other places.
And there has been some artifacts that had been saved throughout the years, but most of them are now in the hands of those people that don't know what they are.
David: So these look like regular crystals, or do they have a sculpted look? Or what would we see?
Clifford: They come in different forms. Some of them are natural. Like if you took a quartz crystal, for example, they have the same size. And some of them are round – the crystal balls that they use for looking in there, especially in the other societies and other groups throughout the world.
And I also have studied that in terms of what they use now in computers. Computer technology is also used in the crystal technology, primarily for storage.
And I believe that they use this as a bank of information which could be infinite. And, of course, they also connect with other, perhaps off-world or inner-world systems that they can transmit messages and probably viewing through those, those technologies that have been in existence since, I understand, since the beginning of the Indian culture and people.
Corey: So the crystals actually store information.
Corey: So that's kind of a little bit of a correlation. In previous testimony on Cosmic Disclosure, we talked about the Inner Earth group, the Anshar.
And they use crystals as giant, basically, computers. It's data banks for information.
Corey: So that's kind of an interesting correlation that they can store information in them as well as use them as a transceiver to communicate with, I guess, people from space and people from the inner world as well.
Clifford: I think they're from all different dimensions, if you want to look at it that way, not only the dimensions that we as humans are aware of. But I think that they also go beyond other dimensional areas or zones, or perhaps in an interdimensional type of system, which I really don't have any idea about. But I think that these messages are received instantaneously in most cases.
And a lot of that among the primitive tribes have been used for the healing practices. And the healing practices is also used of [by] other groups to also interconnect with other, perhaps, inner world, off-world, and even on the surface systems for transfer of knowledge that is so required at that time. And it's usually done without any language.
It just, I guess, in a way, just transmits in a different zone . . .
Clifford: . . . for communication. The thought processes.
David: So Clifford, were there any other artifacts that the Zuni got from the star people that you're aware of?
Clifford: I believe that there was many things that were given or survived throughout the thousands of years, but most of them were taken out by the early explorers like the Smithsonian.
And there's a lot of records. And I even saw them way back in the 1960s, of some of the stuff that they took out from Zuni throughout different expeditions starting back in the 1880s.
And they even went and dug up some ruins, the original ruins that were there in existence during the Spanish invasion. And so those artifacts were stored in the Smithsonian.
We went back years later to ask for it, but they told them that they had gotten rid of them or they couldn't trace them back.
But I saw them back in 1966, some of the masks, some of the paraphernalia that they used for religious and curing purposes, and also some of the original artifacts that they recovered from the tribes.
And so there are many things that were in other different museums, like the Hyde Museum in New York and other museums throughout the country.
After the Indian Repatriation Act and the Graveyards Protection Act, they gave a lot of it back to the Indians, but we don't know exactly what the process was.
Corey: There could have been technology, off-world technology, involved in what the Smithsonian removed, because you mentioned before that there was . . . speak of “flying shields” that were handed over to the native population, and they actually flew in them.
Clifford: Not only that they used the shields, but other vessels that they used for transportation in the old days.
David: When you say “shields”, I just want to be clear. Are these like sculptures that are meant to look like flying saucers, or are they actual craft?
Clifford: It's a craft, but it looks like a shield, the flying shields.
Clifford: A reference is also made of the flying gourds, which are round vessels.
Clifford: So because at that time, what would they relate it to?
Clifford: It's something that they were familiar with.
So the shield, in this case, would be something that you guard yourself with . . . against. Most Indian tribes had their shields back in warfare days. And so that's the only reference that you can make.
And if your flying shield is flying around, well, that's the only reference that they had.
David: You may be aware that here on Gaia we've been investigating some very unusual, humanoid-looking mummies. Have you had any encounters with possible artifacts of that nature?
Clifford: I'm only aware of them through information that was given me. For example, the one that this Hopi person told me about is that, . . . especially in the ant people that the Hopis are very familiar with.
Now, I've heard of other mummified beings like the one that they took out of the Chaco Canyon, according to this same individual, that was inside of a log that they transported from the Chaco to Hopi.
Clifford: From my first glance, it's mummified. But it also has a covering on it that looks like . . . If you look at a piece of mahogany wood or a root, a mahogany root, and it's like polished. But I can sense immediately that there was something that used to live as a living being.
But it's about . . . I would say it's about that long. [Clifford spreads his hands about 30 inches apart]
David: You're saying it was actually glossy?
David: Like a glossy polish?
Clifford: It was some type of sap on it or some type of a compound that was in there.
David: Like for mummification.
Corey: Well, they've probably seen . . . Over the years, they'd find tree sap, and then there would be something preserved in it like a bug or something like that. They probably knew that they could preserve . . .
Clifford: The way I look at it, that they were taught that from the off-planet beings on how to preserve those things. We were all taught by those people.
David: Now did this mummy look just like a regular human three feet tall, or did it have some unusual features?
Clifford: It's got many, many unusual features. It didn't look like a human at all.
Clifford: Yes. It looked like . . . My first reaction is that it's an ET because I've seen so many pictures of them.
And what my evaluation of the information that I have studied throughout the years is that that's got to be an ET or off-planet living thing, or something that came from not a human or regular animal species . . . centaur . . .
David: Well, can I ask you a few questions?
David: Okay. Did it have five fingers, or . . .
Clifford: No, at that time I did not go into detail on that because he just showed it and said, “We'll go through this the next time.”
And I respected him, and I said, “Okay, fine.”
Corey: And there is the possibility of us being able to get x-rays done of it.
Clifford: He even volunteered to have somebody look at these things, because he's the last of the persons at First Mesa. And he wants it to be known that “I have this information”.
So he sort of like asked me, in a way, “What shall I do?” And I said, “Well, I think we ought to document it.”
And one of them goes through the scientific analysis of these things, because this is far too important for just to let it go.
David: I assume that it has a human-like head with eyes, nose, mouth, or . . .
Clifford: Well, it's got the features of things that humans are made with: eyes, legs, hands.
David: But the proportions are all different?
Clifford: Proportions are different. And it might have been just one of the smaller species . . . because there are many species. In our teachings, there were different sizes.
Even in the ant people, there's different sizes. In the insectoid world, there's different sizes. So it could be one of the same species but a different type.
Corey: Does he have the history of how it was found, . . .
Corey: . . . where it was found?
Clifford: He's got the whole history.
Clifford: And he also has detailed information of how he got that, when it happened, the dates and so on. So he's very thorough in that.
Mr. Malava, that's his Hopi name, and he has a lot of information. And he's like the last of the priesthood of the First Mesa Hopi.
They're all different. But he has made himself the spokesperson for what is left with him throughout the ages from previous grandfathers and the group that he got his teachings from.
And he feels that now is the time to let the public know, primarily for two reasons.
First reason is that he wants to set the record straight about these other writers that have been telling a whole bunch of hoaxes about the Hopi and get the record straight.
And the other one is for the longevity of the information for the future generations. Even though it looks like we're at the end of this fourth world, he wants to transfer that information on to the next generation so that they'll have an idea of what history is involved with the Hopi people.
He's got so many information, including not only about the mummified things that he talked about, the flying shield, but also about the asteroids and how it happened in the past and what might happen in the future.
And he's at the stage in his life that he wants to pass on this information to the general public. And nobody . . . He tried to get somebody to carry on his duties and function of what he is in First Mesa. And he's not getting anybody to work with him to be his protégé.
And so what he wants to do is that he wants to record this and pass it on, anywhere from the simple ones to the storytelling-type approach to advanced things like what we're talking about.
Corey: Can you explain a little bit about the Hopi prophecies of the first, second, third, fourth world, and why we're in the fourth?
Clifford: Well, the first three were destroyed by things of nature, you know, like earth, wind, fire, earthquakes. And the last one was, of course, the flooding.
And so this is why we, as Pueblo people, survived in the Grand Canyon, and we've become sort of like the wards of the different insectoid people. This is what our history tells us. It's not something that was made up. It was not somebody who came from somewhere and gave us this information. It's part of our history and it's our system.
Corey: How does the insect people tie into the fourth world and third world?
Clifford: The way they describe it, I think that they were not only from the inner world, but I believe that they also, according to the teachings, they were from other off-world systems that they saw, which would fall in the same category as the Guardians and the Keepers of our Earth that saw this catastrophe.
And there was a reason for a lot of these clearances, so to speak.
You've got to clear the Earth of the bad things. And I think the same theory applies with the dinosaurs or the giants that to get rid of those things.
And whoever's in charge, whether you call it God or the Great Spirit or whatever, is the one that took it upon themselves to say that “we've gone too far on this end or we made a mistake, so let's clean this up again.”
Or that “humankind did not follow what we told them to do and they deviated, so we got to destroy that planet that they also created a mess on there.”
And I think that this repeats; history repeats itself.
Clifford: So now we're in . . . What the Hopis, the Zuni and other Pueblo people say that we're now in the end of the fourth world.
David: Does every world, as described, end in a catastrophe of some kind – these cleansings you're talking about?
Clifford: According to the history that I have been studying, they had given them the opportunities not to get to that point, but they went and they exceeded what they were told not to do. So that was the last resort that says, “Well, if you do not follow what we had taught you to do, and you're violating that, we have no choice.”
Corey: When the ant people realized that you were at the end of the third world, where did they take the Zuni, for how long, and what was life like where they went?
Clifford: Well, according to the teachings, we were in the fourth underworld. And they progressed each step from the fourth world, which was “a dark world”.
And then every layer that they went through becomes a lot cleaner and more lighter than the previous ones.
And there's many, many stories about how they got to the next world. The Hopis used the reed to go up on that. The Zunis, they talk about growing a certain tree, and I think these are just allegories that they had to make a reference to it.
And so they stepped up to the next world, and they stayed there for a while. And then eventually we came into what we call “the light world”.
And they use the allegory as the Sun Father creating that, which is true to a certain extent, because of the light and what we know about the Sun's energy nowadays.
So there's a lot of things that are mixed in there that is . . . you look at it from the science standpoint, which is true from the quantum physics standpoint, and then you also look at it from the spirituality standpoint, and you put those together and they fit perfectly of what the interpretation of the Indian talk about and what modern physics will tell you about.
And they talk about the same thing from a different language and a different concept.
Corey: Were the Zuni and Hopi brought below the Earth for generations?
Clifford: Oh, this is thousands of years.
Corey: Thousands of years.
Clifford: At least, yeah.
Corey: And when you emerged, do you know where your people emerged from and where you went next?
Clifford: Well, they said that the Grand Canyon . . .
Corey: Grand Canyon.
Clifford: And there's several places. The confluence of the Little Colorado comes from the east. And the Big Colorado . . . there's a travertine dome. They call it “The Sipapu”.
All Indians have a reference to a “Sipapu” or a “Sipapulima”. And that's where they came out from other parts of the universe, that they have to have a portal that they go through, where nowadays we can call it a wormhole or a vortex.
Corey: Wow! So when the Zuni were brought underground, they may have been brought to another planet through a portal.
Clifford: Uh-huh. I think that if you really look at it from the standpoint of science, I think that they were actually transported not only into the inner world, but the other beings came from the off-world. They came through those, what we call, again, wormholes or vortices out there. And they came directly through there.
There used to be an expedition, especially from my Zuni tribe, that . . . they recruited at least 20 people every year. They would bring them down into the Grand Canyon, and they had like a 10-day boat trip, and they identified all their sacred places, the Indians not knowing that they were looking for these vortices, and they actually showed them.
Corey: The Grand Canyon has a lot of other mysteries. Back in the late 1800s, there was a discovery that some of the artifacts looked possibly Egyptian.
Corey: Do you have some information about that?
Clifford: Well, we actually did a documentary, I think four years ago. [“Expedition to Sipapu”] And our purpose was to go out there and look for the 1980 expedition that was financed by the Smithsonian through a guy by the name of Kincaid.
And he actually went into the cave, and we were up there to look for that place. And while we were there, there was some drilling that was going on. We did not know that until we got there.
And the purpose of us going over there was to find out about the cave where they had Egyptian and Buddhist statues that were removed by the Kincaid expedition and transported to the Smithsonian in Washington, DC.
We inquired about that by official means, and we were told that they had dumped that into the ocean, gold statues.
Corey: We had heard about bones of giants, bodies of giants, being dumped in the ocean by the Smithsonian in the past.
Clifford: Yeah. But that expedition is on YouTube. It's called “Expedition to Sipapu”. It's all factual. We went through the archives.
Corey: But you don't recall any specific stories about people living there from different lands?
Clifford: Well, you know, you have to really listen to the story and you have to really understand the language of what they mean.
When they say that they go through . . . Remember, I said that they went through layers.
Clifford: So they had to be way down in there. And that's . . . And we have a cyclic life. We all go back into where we were at, which is the Inner Earth.
And the Inner Earth has been visited by OBE, you know, out-of-body experiences. And I know a lot of people that have been there, and they were sad to come back here because it is so beautiful out there. I know they're not lying. They can't lie to me.
Corey: I've had a little bit of experience with that myself.
Clifford: Yeah, it is beautiful, they say. “I didn't want to come back,” they say.
Corey: I believe in your testimony, you've mentioned a different type of insectoid as well.
Clifford: Those are the praying mantis type?
Corey: Yes. A lot of people in this audience will be familiar with the mantis-type insectoids.
Clifford: Yes. I think that there were other species, and not only the ones that basically are on the ground, or inside the ground like the ants, in the insectoid species, but there were also other species that were also teachers.
Corey: I heard something mentioned which I found interesting in the smart-glass pads about Native Americans that reported a group called the Two Hearts.
Corey: And I found that interesting because the Reptilians have a primary and a secondary heart. Do you think these are the same beings?
Clifford: According to the Zuni mythology or stories, is that all the people that were made were all good people. But there was a two-hearted people, which we now call them as the “Dark Force people”, or to the more blatant term is called the “witchcraft people”.
Those are the ones that are referred to as the “two-hearted people”, because they do not have the same mission as a regular human being. Their mission is to be the Dark Force for the balance.
Corey: Ah, yeah.
Clifford: And the balance was to be population control. But they overstepped that control and they became more powerful, and that's what we're going through right now. We're in an imbalance of the Dark Force. But it's going to be straightened out.
David: One of the things, Clifford, in terms of research that I think is very compelling, is you look at these skulls that were originally found in South Africa, the Boskop skulls, and they are elongated.
David: The brain is about twice the size of a normal brain. This is not the result of head binding. We find them in Siberia. We find them in South Africa. The Egyptian depictions of the pharaohs have this characteristic.
We've now found them in tombs in Europe. And it does appear that some of the classic Mayan inscriptions show people with elongated skulls as well.
So I'm wondering if you have any information on that.
Clifford: The theory that I have looked at is what in the beginning, in order to have a leadership to carry on the functions of the “new human”, is that they had to have a hybrid program. And those people, at that time, were still in the stages of becoming advanced humans. And I'm talking about the indigenous people.
So they had to have a transition. And I believe that, based upon the prayers and the rituals, and it's just the historical facts, based upon a comprehensive study about these things, and you look at that, and these were a special type of people. And they had different features than the regular group.
So even in the Zuni history, the priesthood were sort of like half whatever off-world means, but at the same time they were half humanoid-type people.
So they started that blue line, so to speak - bluebloods organizations. And it was done by a certain group, by a clan system, or by an order of what you might call a societal system. There's many societies in many different pueblos.
They got the medicine society, kachina society, the priesthood society from all directions and all different . . . And each one has certain functions.
David: Clifford, what do you think about casinos being built on American Indian land?
Clifford: Indian reservations are where the casinos are at. And they had access to them all these years, but I believe that there are a lot of activities, construction activities, going on on the Indian reservations because that's land that nobody can go in. It's just like a national park, same status, or a military base, same status.
So they can carry on anything that they want. And casinos are to get people away from their usual activities and take away all their money, number one. And then also to give them another deviation, because they've already got alcoholism.
They've already got domestic violence, drugs and everything else.
Corey: Throw in some gambling in there.
Clifford: So this is another one. Gambling is . . . You can do it even sober. So I believe that's also another deviation.
David: Do you think that each of these sacred lands for the American Indians have underground areas beneath them, that maybe these casinos are built there so that they have a nice cover to access those underground areas?
Clifford: Yeah, especially, for example, like at Jicarilla Apache, Dulce [New Mexico]. I think there's two casinos over there. The stories and the legends, or to a lot of times, mythology, about some of those places, that the underground people used to occupy – they still do to this day – they used to go into those mountains by pilgrimages by different tribes.
That's where they used to have the contact directly with them. But as time went on, they started putting in fences; they started isolating it. So we no longer . . .
Corey: . . . have access.
Clifford: . . . have access.
Corey: So this is the military that has this place locked down?
Clifford: Nobody really knows who.
Clifford: But I could never get information from those people because . . . I think what they did was they signed a document, “If anybody asks you this, you don't tell them.”
Clifford: So they said, “Well . . . .” And they got paid real good money.
David: All right. Well, Clifford, this has been really great, and I'm so grateful that you wanted to come forward and share all your knowledge with us.
And Corey, do you have anything you'd like to say to him in closing?
Corey: Yeah. It's been an honor to have you and your information out here. I'm very happy that this can be a conduit to correct a lot of misconceptions about the Hopi and Zuni people.
Clifford: I'm glad to be here.